What Kind of Reforms Should be Made in Education?

[Mario15632]

I made a blog entry about this, but in case you did not see it, I'll open up for discussion here, because blog comments are not forum threads. Personally, schools need more hands on interaction with the students (more hands-on demonstrations) and heightend salaries for teachers so that they will actually bother to teach to their full ability.

So, what do you think? Give me your honest opinions.

[cheat-master30]

Okay, this post may or may not make a whole lot of sense since I am not from the US, don't plan to live there, and honestly know as much about the US educations systems as someone would if they watched TV programs and cartoons, because frankly... why would someone over here generally be told what the education system is like over there?

Never the less, based on experience over here, and assuming it generally applies to the US education system, I'd say the first thing would be to give students more choices in terms of what they want to take as lessons. From college experience, that was a pretty good idea, and in university studies, that's pretty much the best way, so why don't schools follow suit? You already know after one year the things a student really, REALLY does not like or have interest in, so why force them to do something they're just going to fail at? I can say right now that the subjects I had no interest in back in school, and even after that were the ones I got worst results on in exams, and by allow students to drop subjects they have no interest in quickly (and I'm assuming, drop parts of subjects like PE and CDT or the like they don't want to study) will not only give the school/college/whatever more time to teach them a subject they actually care about by using time otherwise wasted on completely useless lessons, it'd probably also raise exam results and education league table results too. Just stick to the very basic things that are needed (aka main language for the country/English, Maths, etc) then discard things that really aren't helping anyone.

The other thing, and something a lot less revolutionary... teach subjects like Philosophy and maybe Psychology at school. The former is pretty much my favourite subject after I left school and went into further education, although I can almost bet the sad reason it doesn't get taught is because teachers can't bear the idea of a student actually being taught to think for themselves and be able to call out other subject teachers about the subjects in those classes. I can only imagine the hilarity, albeit rightfully when somene who knows philosophy goes into a science or religious education class and questions the teacher on why this or that is justified or not.

Oh, and this will probably get me flamed to no end by some people, but... stop teaching 'intelligent design' and 'creationism' as valid alternatives to evolution. Please. I was personally rather shocked to hear so many Americans actually believe it and want it taught as valid to evolution in schools, or even to ban teaching of evolution. Jeez, over here, even the vast majority of religious leaders don't believe that theory any more, yet to think it's even remotely common over there kinda shocks me...

[benoit489]

Evolution would make more sense if there weren't so many missing links. There's also still no explanation for how nothing came into something. All we have is "Evolution is most probable because these fossils kinda look like something we see today if you arrange them just like this...". Evolution is pretty much all theory with little (legitimate) scientific backing. Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution are all plausible theories for how the everything came into existence.

Also, Psychology is taught in American high schools.

[cheat-master30]

Psychology is taught? Then it should probably be taught over here too. And I won't argue about evolution vs creationism here, that should probably get its own topic, but I will say it makes more sense than going off faith with no solid evidence (and yes, I don't call refitting evidence around what science discovers evidence, it's the same kind of thing as the 'invisible substances on the moon' making it perfectly round when they found the moon had craters though a telescope). The point about philosophy still stands, I want it taught.

Any ideas about the first, longer part of my post? The choose what subjects to do/drop part?

[Zexis]

Psychology is taught? Then it should probably be taught over here too. And I won't argue about evolution vs creationism here, that should probably get its own topic, but I will say it makes more sense than going off faith with no solid evidence (and yes, I don't call refitting evidence around what science discovers evidence, it's the same kind of thing as the 'invisible substances on the moon' making it perfectly round when they found the moon had craters though a telescope). The point about philosophy still stands, I want it taught.

Any ideas about the first, longer part of my post? The choose what subjects to do/drop part?
First, @ cheat.

Choosing classes would be nice. Maybe once students hit high school. Before then, it's nice to see different fields of study and see what you might want to do. By high school, you at least know what your interests are. And we are allowed to choose some electives, and the available classes and elective class slots increase all the way up to Senior year.

On the other hand, I do understand why they'd want us to take certain classes. PE is obvious; America is fat. Thankfully, I am not. But many people are overweight, and it's kind of sickening when it's their own doing. The rest of the classes are to make students "well-rounded," as my instructors have said. To a certain degree I can understand that. But if I don't want to be a scientist, why should I have to study things like biology, chemistry, and physics? Hardly makes sense.

As for my own reforms, I'd like to see more Socratic style teaching. Lectures tend to bore and don't always let information stick. Socratic seminars, however, force people to think, and when you're actually thinking about and processing the information, you tend to, in my expierience, learn more efficiently.

[cheat-master30]

Psychology is taught? Then it should probably be taught over here too. And I won't argue about evolution vs creationism here, that should probably get its own topic, but I will say it makes more sense than going off faith with no solid evidence (and yes, I don't call refitting evidence around what science discovers evidence, it's the same kind of thing as the 'invisible substances on the moon' making it perfectly round when they found the moon had craters though a telescope). The point about philosophy still stands, I want it taught.

Any ideas about the first, longer part of my post? The choose what subjects to do/drop part?
First, @ cheat.

Choosing classes would be nice. Maybe once students hit high school. Before then, it's nice to see different fields of study and see what you might want to do. By high school, you at least know what your interests are. And we are allowed to choose some electives, and the available classes and elective class slots increase all the way up to Senior year.

On the other hand, I do understand why they'd want us to take certain classes. PE is obvious; America is fat. Thankfully, I am not. But many people are overweight, and it's kind of sickening when it's their own doing. The rest of the classes are to make students "well-rounded," as my instructors have said. To a certain degree I can understand that. But if I don't want to be a scientist, why should I have to study things like biology, chemistry, and physics? Hardly makes sense.

As for my own reforms, I'd like to see more Socratic style teaching. Lectures tend to bore and don't always let information stick. Socratic seminars, however, force people to think, and when you're actually thinking about and processing the information, you tend to, in my expierience, learn more efficiently.

I'm not really saying scrap everything, but PE could have a sub version of this where you get to choose the activities in it you actually want to do, since if someone likes say Football/baseball/rugby/tennis, why shouldn't they do that all the time in PE?

The well rounded thing is useless to be honest. If I don't care, hence am likely to fail, what have I honestly learnt in that subject that could help? Seriously, I ended up being forced to do.. I think Italian as my secondary foreign language class in school. What do I know in that language now? About ciao and that's it, which is really not too useful in say, Italy is it?

[Mario15632]

@ Cheat and Zexis-

Your opinions about the "well-rounded" thing are respectable, and hard to make a plausable objection to. But to attempt to oppose these opinions, I think that you should have to take core subjects. (math, science, language) Now I may just be another person who was brainwashed by the contemporary school system, but I think that these core subjects are vital to becoming successful in your career whether you become a scientist, writer, animator, or buisnessman. These careers (and certainly many others) often integrate those subjects into use, and it is important to have a complete understanding.

Conversely, I agree with you on the part that students should have to think for themselves. With what I see, most of the contemporary students do not come close to thinking for themselves half the time.

Yay, 200th post.

[cheat-master30]

But I'm not criticising Maths, English or Science, just subjects that should be optional. Things like say, a second foreign language, or possibly subjects like History/Geography/Religious Education, or CDT/DT type subjects like cooking aren't exactly 'needed skills for a future career', they're timetable wasting.

[Zexis]

@ Cheat and Zexis-

Your opinions about the "well-rounded" thing are respectable, and hard to make a plausable objection to. But to attempt to oppose these opinions, I think that you should have to take core subjects. (math, science, language) Now I may just be another person who was brainwashed by the contemporary school system, but I think that these core subjects are vital to becoming successful in your career whether you become a scientist, writer, animator, or buisnessman. These careers (and certainly many others) often integrate those subjects into use, and it is important to have a complete understanding.

Conversely, I agree with you on the part that students should have to think for themselves. With what I see, most of the contemporary students do not come close to thinking for themselves half the time.
Yay, 200th post.

How true! Just the other day, my math teacher told us a bunch of BS about geometry. I knew it was a lie (or thought she was just being an idiot), but most of the other students didn't. They believed her. Turns out, she was just testing us to see who picked up that it was false; it could easily be seen as such with just a bit of thought. Yet, the kiddies are like sponges; they absorb plenty, but if you want to get anything out of them, you have to give a squeeze.

Now, to comment on the rest of your post, I would say that some, maybe all, core subjects are good to take. That's why they're "core" subjects; they're supposed to be the center of our academical knowledge.

But as you reach higher levels of these core subjects, are they as necessary to take? If I'm going to be a lawyer, do I really need to know calculus? Or how DNA replicates? Most likely not.

[benoit489]

History, Geography, and Religious Education don't lead you towards a career, but they give you a better understanding of the present. Those three things mingled together to create the world our generation has inherited.

About evolution: I will make a topic about it tomorrow, time permitting.

[WingsMarioDS]

I have a religion class of 1 hour, and it's all about "how (christiandudenoflamingwarsplease) is awesum and helped people"

[Mario15632]

I have a religion class of 1 hour, and it's all about "how (christiandudenoflamingwarsplease) is awesum and helped people"

Do you go to a Christian school or something? Just asking. Any changes you wish to be made there?

[Yoshi987]

I wish my school wasn't so Catholic...
Not that that's a bad thing, it's just that it makes me feel weird sometimes.

[nickyivyca]

I completely agree with the general ideas of this topic. You know, I'm tired of being forced to read bad books and answer questions and write reports on them. We should be able to have something like what my school does, called Exploratory, for non-elective type subjects.

I'll explain Exploratory. A class of people (some are in the band and strings group, some aren't) is sent into a classroom where they start by learning about Study Skills for six weeks. If you are in Band or Strings, you go to that Tuesday and Friday and have regular class the other days of the week. After Study Skills you go onto whatever that teacher normally teaches as their exploratory, it can be either Drama, Art, Computer Lab, Woodshop, or Advisory, a sort of "life-skills" thing. It's across between Study Skills and DARE. You switch each six weeks, completing all Exploratories by the end of the year. This happens in sixth grade for everyone at my school. Then, in seventh and eighth grade, you get to choose your electives from a larger list, to give a couple examples, Band, Strings, Drama, Art, Video Production, Web Design, Woodshop, Cooking, Robotics, and teacher assistant to name a few.

We should do that for normal subjects, too.

[Mario15632]

I completely agree with the general ideas of this topic. You know, I'm tired of being forced to read bad books and answer questions and write reports on them. We should be able to have something like what my school does, called Exploratory, for non-elective type subjects.

I'll explain Exploratory. A class of people (some are in the band and strings group, some aren't) is sent into a classroom where they start by learning about Study Skills for six weeks. If you are in Band or Strings, you go to that Tuesday and Friday and have regular class the other days of the week. After Study Skills you go onto whatever that teacher normally teaches as their exploratory, it can be either Drama, Art, Computer Lab, Woodshop, or Advisory, a sort of "life-skills" thing. It's across between Study Skills and DARE. You switch each six weeks, completing all Exploratories by the end of the year. This happens in sixth grade for everyone at my school. Then, in seventh and eighth grade, you get to choose your electives from a larger list, to give a couple examples, Band, Strings, Drama, Art, Video Production, Web Design, Woodshop, Cooking, Robotics, and teacher assistant to name a few.

We should do that for normal subjects, too.

I guess I sort of agree with you there. Those do sound like interesting classes, and it would help kids find out what they like to do, thus the name Exploratory.

[imalittlecrazy]

Something about school really bugs me. I live in Massachusetts. Before I moved (see my blog) to the "big city" from the ghetto, I found out something interesting. The town I moved form had the worst school in the state. MY OLD SCHOOL! But you know what? The old town had no money for the schools. We were using books from the 1980s', using teacher's cars to get to field trips, and getting the worst lunchs possible. But this new school I go to has all the things you could get in the world! Laptop carts, REAL FOOD (SHOCKER), and a library being some of the examples. I hate how the schools who can get off easy and have good test grades get all the money, where as the ones who NEED IT don't get crap.It's agrivating how we got nothing and they get everything. We needed it more than they did. If we split some money and we got some too, then I'd be cool with it. But why let the other kids get all the money when they know other towns are suffering? Not cool in my book. NOT COOL AT ALL!!!!

[nickyivyca]

Stupid people that think "Oh, you need to show us that you deserve money by showing that your students do well." When all you need to improve their education is MONEYZ!

[imalittlecrazy]

EXACTLY!!! :mad:

[Mario15632]

Don't worry, the school will close before long, due to lack of funding. >_>

[imalittlecrazy]

LMAO! Nice one

[Mario15632]

I don't know how that was funny, but oh well...